~ You Ask the Pastor ~

Dear Pastors: I’m confused by some scripture, and that’s probably not unusual. When Jesus speaks to the thief on the cross next to him who professes his faith, Jesus says, ‘Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.’ (Luke 23:43). But in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, Paul states, ‘For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.’ So which is it for believers? Do Christians wait in the grave for the rapture to rise, or upon death do they take their next breath with the Lord? I haven’t been able to figure that out. Please respond with your thoughts, supported by scripture, not just another biblical
reference I need to figure out. Thank you.

(Editor’s Note: This is a forum to allow our readers to ask questions anonymously of participating local pastors. To submit a question, please email [email protected]. Your name will not be printed.)

Response from Pastor Dave Gunderson, Ponderosa Basin Chapel:

Before Jesus died and rose again, the spirit of a person who died went toHades. Hades had two compartments–the place of torment and what’s called“Abraham’s bosom.” Jesus made this clear in His story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16. Those who had faith were in paradise, just as Abraham had faith.

When Jesus rose from the dead He brought the spirits of all who were in paradise with Him to heaven. The scripture that describes this uses the metaphor of captives who were conquered by a commanding general and followed him in a parade in his home city as part of his victory celebration. Ephesians 4:8 describes it.

When people who have faith die today, their spirits immediately go into the presence if the Lord. Paul wrote about it in Philippians 1:21-23. Believers do not receive their resurrection bodies until the Rapture as described in I Thessalonians 4:15-16.

The answer could be yes, yes, depending on the way you describe life. For believers, our spirits will not die because we have been given eternal life. So immediately when we die, we will be alive. But we won’t breathe because we don’t have a body yet. When we receive our new resurrection body, we will breathe. We will be alive both in spirit and body.

Response from Pastor Eric Von Raeder, New Life Christian Fellowship:

For Christians we have a present reality and future hope when we die, or “fall asleep.” Our physical body is dead, but our spirit is with the Lord Jesus in heaven awaiting the resurrection of the dead, when we receive new glorified bodies. The bible does not teach soul sleep. Sleep is a metaphor for the believer who dies in Christ. Sleep is not permanent, nor is death for the believers.

Here are a few biblical references to support the theology that believers are spiritually present with the Lord Jesus at death.

“We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.” 2 Corinthians 5:8

“For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better.” Philippians 1:23

“But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect.” Hebrews 12:22-23

Jesus spoke a parable about a rich man and a very poor man. This is what he said happened to them at the time of their deaths:

“So it was that the beggar died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torment in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.” Luke 16:22-23
When asked about the resurrection Jesus said, “But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” Matthew 22:31-32

These scriptures support the fact that when a Christ follower dies,his or her spirit is in the presence of God. That is our present reality. Our future hope is the uniting of our spirit with our glorified body at the coming of Christ.

Response from Pastor Jerry Lura, Grace Community Church of the Sierra:

It is important to remember that we men (mankind), who were created in God’s image, are composed of a physical body (the outer man), and the ‘inner man’ or the heart and the soul of a man (which God breathed into Adam).

That thief who asked Jesus to remember him when He came into His Kingdom, his body died that day. He was, however, with Him (Jesus) in paradise that very day. Those red letters make it clear that when our body stops living, our soul (that day) is present with the Lord in paradise.

In Luke 16:19-31, you get the story of Lazarus and the rich man which depicts two separate areas where the souls of those whose bodies had died went to wait.

I believe that Ephesians 4:8 tells us that Jesus went and got Lazarus and the rest of those souls that were waiting, and brought them into God’s presence (spiritually).

The “resurrection” speaks of a physical body that was dead. Also, 1 Corinthians 15:52, and 1 Thessalonians 4:16 refer to when Jesus will come and raise the dead (bodies) of those who are “in Christ” (spiritually) and remake them for eternity. In 1 Corinthians 15:53 (ESV), “For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.” So our spirits will be rejoined with a new body made for eternity.

Therefore the simple answer is that I believe that your soul will be present with the Lord when your body dies, if you belong to Him, at the moment of your death. Your body, no matter what happens to it, will be resurrected from whatever state it is in when Jesus comes to get it and it will be remade for eternity. What a hope!

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